#achilles x troilus

[angevinyaoiz]

Patrochilles x Troilus

A goofy scenario I’ve had in my head where instead of getting Super Murdered Troilus just gets kidnapped and this causes lots of problems and annoyances for everyone. Take notes folks, remember to do ur research and consult ur partner before impulsively attempting to add a new member to ur shared harem…

[andros-paidophonoio]

In the generally troilus story Achilles kind of pops up out of nowhere to Do All That as like an impulsive one time thing but I wonder if he stalked a little .....kept maybe finding little glimpses of his lil assassination target...seeing him from far away wondering when the right time to strike is....but then also getting a lil enamored as one does....cute

[lions-and-men-musical]

Full Song List From L&M (Dec14)

note: crossed out titles means the song is more likely to be cut OR that it needs to be reworked; *asterisks* means it is a placeholder title.

EPISODE 1: Sing, Muse

Rage - Cassandra

Greatness - Thetis, Achilles

The Sparta Penthouse - Menelaus, Helen, Agamemnon

Dancing With Devils - Paris, Hera, Aphrodite, Athena

EPISODE 2: *Pelion & The Penthouse*

Someday - Achilles, Patroclus

Lie (Someday Pt2) - Menelaus, Helen

(Try To) Hold Me Down - Chiron, Achilles, Patroklos

Kiss & Tell - Helen, Paris, Aphrodite

EPISODE 3: The Ringing Wargong

Born For This - Major Achaean Soldiers; Agamemnon, Artemis

*Skyros Party!* - Deidamia, Achilles

Fight For Me - Ares, Athena, Aphrodite

The Weapon (Preprise) - Achilles, Deidamia, Patroklos

I Run This City - Helen, Paris (this song specifically needs a large rework but I still want to keep it in)

EPISODE 4: Man-Made Machines

Choose Your Fighter - Odysseus, Diomedes, G.Ajax, Nestor, Agamemnon, Menelaus

Just Drive - L.Ajax, Automedon, Teucer

The Shining Helm - Andromache, Paris, Aeneas, Troilus, Cassandra, Sarpedon

The Weapon - Achilles, Hector

EPISODE 5: In The Blood

Carry On - Odysseus, Achilles, Hector, Soldiers

Son of Tydeus - Diomedes, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite

You Bleed Like Me - Achilles, Patroklos

EPISODE 6: Battles & Brawls

Behemoth vs Brawler - Hector, G.Ajax

Terrible - Hector, Paris, Helen (I will NOT cut this but I might to move it to before “Son of Tydeus” to follow the actual timeline in the Iliad)

I Want The Best - Briseis, Achilles, Patroklos

The Council of Gods - Olympians (another song I’d have to move to fit the Iliad timeline. I think I’d rather cut it than move it but I could also just keep it)

EPISODE 7: Your Purpose

Knock-Knock - Cressida, Troilus

*The “Chryseis” Dilemma* - Agamemnon, Achilles

Purpose - Agamemnon, Hera

Eyes On Us - Apollo, Cassandra, Cressida

EPISODE 8: *Hold The Line*

Hold The Line - Major Achaean Soldiers

The Midnight Raid - Diomedes, Odysseus, Athena

*I’m Begging You* - Achilles, Nestor, Odysseus, Patroklos

Someone Worth Fighting For - Achilles, Patroklos, Hector, Andromache

EPISODE 9: Rage

Nothing Left To Lose - Achilles

Home - Briseis, Chiron, Thetis, Deidamia, Agamemnon, Nestor, Achilles

Let Me Bleed - Achilles, Briseis

No Oaths - Achilles, Hector

EPISODE 10: And So They Buried Us

Two Urns, One Half Empty - Achaean Soldiers, Trojans, Patroklos, Achilles

You Don’t Know - Paris, Achilles

Costs Too Great - L.Ajax, Agamemnon, Menelaus, Briseis

Retrieving the Palladium (Pokerface) - Helen, Odysseus, Diomedes

Choose Your Fighter (Reprise) - Deidamia, Neoptolemus

The Trojan Horse - so so so many people

Dirge - All

if anyone is curious about a specific song, please send an ask! I’m happy to talk about any

[darlingi-loveyou]

coming from someone who just played both menelaus and andromache, so many issues would’ve been solved if hector just stopped picking fights with everyone

[gayestshakespearecouples]

More quotes, submitter's comments, and credits for photos under the cut!

Achilles and Patroclus

Additional quotes:

other characters commenting on their relationship (yes, I will never stop including the 'whore' one because it's hilarious)

.

Submitter's comments:

(^ so true)

Hamlet and Horatio

Additional quotes:

.

This is truly the most affectionate way Hamlet could have possibly chosen to sign off his letter to Horatio:

Horatio being protective + something about "we defy augury" (augury = omens, divination, fate) really gets me

Submitter's comments:

(^ I got 10 submissions for them, to be exact. :P)

Image sources:

Achilles and Patroclus: Royal Shakespeare Company, 2018

Hamlet and Horatio: Seattle Shakespeare Company, 2010

[tricksterdraws]

So last week I did this quick illustratrion about their portrayal in the rsc 2018 version of Troilus and Cressida joking I had only passing knowledge of it.

guess who now got the play on DVD, watched it, lay awake thinking about this  quote and now drew the first comic in literal years about it...

[bcb-brian-camryn]

Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida is inaccurate because if someone called Patroclus "Achilles' bitch" infront of Achilles, he'd kill them brutally.

[loonyloopylupin96]

Ooh, lmk if this happens!

It'll give me an excuse to re-watch Troilus and Cressida (which was the reason I read TSOA in the first place - would recommend the 2018 RSC version)

As a side note, Andy Apollo (Achilles, above) would make a fair Remus

who's gonna write wolfstar in a patrochilles au for me to read

[butchhamlet]

yeah you interpreted my ask correctly, that's what i meant! i definitely agree that there's a middle ground. on one hand, anything shakespeare 100% intended would've been clearly laid out in the text. it's hard to argue that he intentionally wrote something off in subtext when he pretty much spells every plot point or characterization out. it's also anachronistic to the conventions of his time, i think.

on the other hand, i've seen a bunch of people say it's impossible to present alternative character/plot interpretations in various productions because it isn't what shakespeare intended. and like i agree that on a textual level, you can't really argue that one theory is the only correct interpretation, but isn't the whole point of putting on different productions to present these same characters and stories through different angles? a theory doesn't have to be textually supported for a production to incorporate it. "shakespeare didn't use subtext" applies when studying the text academically, but different stagings naturally come with different interpretations. isn't that literally the point of having so many productions and interpretations of 1 play

this is mainly a discussion i've seen in the r/shakespeare subreddit tbh. specifically it crops up a lot when people ask "are [x] character(s) gay" and a very common response is "if shakespeare intended them to be gay, he would've explicitly spelled it out" (sometimes using achilles & patroclus from troilus and cressida as an example). it's not the majority but i've also seen a few people say some characters shouldn't be made gay since that isn't what shakespeare intended, and looking for subtext in lines is misguided. which is like. ?????? i know the people on r/shakespeare and also subreddits in general tend to be a very very different group but ?????????? i genuinely don't understand where they're coming from lmao. anyway i haven't seen anyone on tumblr talk about this and was really curious about your thoughts

"shakespeare didn't use subtext" applies when studying the text academically, but different stagings naturally come with different interpretations. isn't that literally the point of having so many productions and interpretations of 1 play

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY!!! PRECISELY! i dunno maybe in modern theater, especially indie theater, there's not much of a gap between text and production, but we are talking about SHAKESPEARE here. every one of his plays has been done 500 bajillion times. the text as its own contained thing is NOT the same as any of the productions and the idea that you can't do anything not 100% supported by the text is ridiculous. i can see how it might be a little rude/gauche to go in a completely wild direction if you're putting on a small play by a playwright who is still alive, but shakespeare is the most famous playwright to ever live probably and also he is SOOOOOOO DEAD. he's not gonna care if you do hamlet but ophelia is pregnant! he's not gonna care if you do hamlet but hamlet isn't there so there are just giant blocks of silence for every soliloquy! and isn't it beautiful how the craziest productions are basically collaging with his text, cutting it apart and piecing it back together? i can understand not personally enjoying out-there productions, but conceptually the stuff people do with shakespeare is dope as hell

"if shakespeare intended them to be gay, he would've explicitly spelled it out" (sometimes using achilles & patroclus from troilus and cressida as an example). it's not the majority but i've also seen a few people say some characters shouldn't be made gay since that isn't what shakespeare intended, and looking for subtext in lines is misguided.

i don't know why i'm surprised that this debate is perhaps a smokescreen for "stop putting gay people in everything ugh don't ruin the sanctity of the text" and yet i'm still taken aback by just. the silliness of this argument. and these are the same people talking about anachronism???? like. sorry is this better?

[image description: the following edited lines from hamlet:

HAMLET I am glad to see you well: Horatio,--or I do forget myself.

HORATIO The same, my lord, and according to a 21st-century model of sexuality as fixed and partitioned into disparate categories based on identity more than on action, I'm a gay man btw.

/end description]

[underrated-lovers-of-apollo-poll]

Round 4: Poll 2

*Please Read*

I advise everyone to read each contestant's story to get a well-rounded understanding of each entry. I urge you to not just vote for the one "you know best". I have everyone's stories/reasons why they should win under the cut.

(Helenus art by @luddlestons)

Propaganda:

Helenus

What's The Love Story?

Helenus was the son of Priam and Hecuba of Troy! He's also the twin of Cassandra, and received the gift of prophecy from Apollo. Apollo also gave him an ivory bow that Helenus used to shoot Achilles in the hand with :3

Why Should They Win?

I know we all love Hector X Apollo, but this is a really good one too! Especially considering the Apollo's relationship with both Helenus & Cassandra!

Hecuba

What's The Love Story?

Hecuba was the Queen of Troy during the Trojan War. She had many children with her husband, Priam, but she also had a son with Apollo, Troilus, who was killed by Achilles inside Apollo's temple. :(

When the Troy was sacked, one version states that Apollo rescued Hecuba and brought her to safety in Lycia. <3

Why Should They Win?

This shows that even after Apollo's relationships end, he still cares about them <3

Kids?

Troilus. RIP :( he died too young

[angevinyaoiz]

Achilles x Troilus original flavor (overthinking and thinking about visual inspirations below the cut)

never know wtf these ppl should be wearing bc of the mix of eras in artistic depiction but inspired by the meme both what i thinknis the most common vase image i keep seeing

Plus the extremely phallic Sword Pointing combined with Rooster

Troilus in my mind is very indistinct shota-aged bc of the ambiguity but the meme requires a Specific Number Age for the “punchline” so I just went with that. Also bc the emphasis of the horror of the event is often on youth + the scandalousness of death of unarmed very noncombatant little boy (inpubes) so u know, exaggeration for tragedy, as seen in the top illustration which really emphasizes his tinyness.

In this comic he meets his famous fate….but what if…he didnt…read These doodles for more of his unfortunate adventures

[rikusqueenofhearts]

Let's do something random, shall we?

[happypeachsludgeflower]

okay. so, in Troilus and Cressida Act 2, Scene 1, while being beaten by Ajax, Thersites is cursing Patroclus and Achilles out and says, “I will hold my peace when Achilles' brooch bids me, shall I?”

now, I just kinda assumed that was the equivalent of calling Patroclus Achilles’ bitch and implying that they’re fucking. which, fair. they totally were. and it makes sense in context with Thersites personality.

but I’m scrolling through the wikipedia article reading the summary of the play for Reasons ™ right?

and omg 😆 it says the definition of ‘brooch’ during the 16th century basically meant a “pointed rod, spit, or pricker” which jjfkjckska

I’m pretty sure Thersites called Patroclus Achilles top guys

[littlelovsrs]

WHO was gonna tell me that William Shakespeare shipped patrochilles/achicleos?????????

[gayestshakespearecouples]

More quotes, submitter's comments, and credits for photos under the cut!

Antonio and Sebastian

Additional quotes I picked out:

Generally the way Antonio adresses Sebastian:

Submitter's comments:

Achilles and Patroclus

Additional quotes I picked out:

the quote featured above was Patroclus calling Achilles "my sweet"; a few lines later (and also at least one other occasion) Achilles returns the term of endearment

Achilles and Patroclus don't actually appear that much in the play but others talk about their relationship:

.

Submitter's comments:

(so true, what more do you need to know?)

Photos:

Antonio and Sebastian: The Tempest (2010) movie

Achilles and Patroclus: Royal Shakespeare Company, 2018

[mntds]

Troilus and Cressida: act 3 scene iii